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Entire forum ➜ MUSHclient ➜ General ➜ Source Releasal Methods Need Altering

Source Releasal Methods Need Altering

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Posted by

Shaun Biggs USA (644 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #15 on Fri 01 Feb 2008 11:58 PM (UTC)

Message

Given the choice of VCS and SVN, I would choose SVN, for although it is evil, there is git-svn. I do not know if there is a git-vcs. Besides, git was written by Linus, and who can argue with that? *dives under desk awaiting flames*

Just whatever is decided, do not use CVS... I still have nightmares about that one from college. This is not exaggeration, it really is the cause of some bad dreams for me.

It is much easier to fight for one's ideals than to live up to them.

Posted by

David Haley USA (3,881 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #16 on Sat 02 Feb 2008 12:11 AM (UTC)

Message

Quote:
I do not know if there is a git-vcs

VCS is just a generic term for version control system, so I'm pretty sure there is no git-vcs. :-)

(What I meant when I said that VCS would be my preference was that I would like to have a VCS repository around instead of diff files. That way you solve all of these problems with one stone.)

I'd rather use git over svn myself. I'd rather use bzr over all others. ;) But git is certainly much better than svn IMO due to being distributed (the reason why I like bzr). bzr also has export capabilities to svn and cvs (evil though it may be).

And hey, if git is supported by Linus, what about bzr being the VCS behind all of Canonical's development? *ducks and covers* :-P

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,173 posts) Bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #17 on Sat 02 Feb 2008 01:04 AM (UTC)

Message

I don't want to personally set up a git / svn / whatever server, however I have absolutely no objection if someone like David wants to set one up that is publicly accessible. He could keep the "official" source up to date by simply applying the diffs as I release them.

Some of the version control systems also allow you to view the pretty-printed (or at least, syntax-coloured) source directly on the web, which would be nice too.

I should point out that if anyone is having problems processing the diff files, because they don't have Linux or Cygwin, or for whatever reason, they may also have problems with git / svn / cvs. For example, they may not be supported under Windows, or may be confusing to use. I certainly found setting up a repository confusing.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

Shaun Biggs USA (644 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #18 on Sat 02 Feb 2008 05:52 AM (UTC)

Message

David: Bah, must learn to not read and talk while typing. Replace everything in my last post about "VCS" with "bzr". Also, it is hard to argue with a company that backs Ubuntu, but still... Linus' Resume: Linux! Also, Linus is no longer in charge of git. It is just something he made because he was bored for a week or so, then decided to go back to kernel development. I honestly do not have a problem with bzr, I just really like git.

Nick: Both git and bzr have windows binaries that run just fine. No need to worry about cross-platform capability. I like the idea of bzr, but never used it, git is simple, and would not require much more than how you are hosting the source currently. SVN is evil, but it works well, and I can just use git-svn and ignore the fact that I am really using SVN.

It is much easier to fight for one's ideals than to live up to them.

Posted by

Onoitsu2 USA (248 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #19 on Sun 03 Feb 2008 01:31 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sun 03 Feb 2008 02:05 AM (UTC) by Onoitsu2

Message

So has the debate been settled on the method of source release?

-Onoitsu2

[Edit: I found out why things would not patch, cause I was attempting to patch from version 4.19 up to 4.21, and it was looking for 4.20 in several locations, as well as in the mushclient.cnt there are a few alterations since 4.19 and 4.20 that I don't understand in the diff formatting.

Perhaps you could upload the 4.21 source, and every version you could do a diff of it, instead of posting the change, like the XML one in 4.20 has, as there must have been a few other things since then that changed, in things like the mushclient.cnt for instance.

[Edit#2: The patch tool I downloaded from http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/patch.htm works WONDERFULLY, you just have to go to a cmdline to use it, it is so simply done, CD to the dir the files are located in (c:\programming\altered\mushclient), I typed in from there "c:\Program Files\GnuWin32\bin\patch.exe" (used tab completion :-D) SPACE < diffs.txt (I renamed the version_4.21_diffs.txt for ease of typing)

Entire line inclufing prompt:
C:\Programming\altered\MUSHCLIENT>"c:\Program Files\GnuWin32\bin\patch.exe" < diffs.txt

And there we go :)]

Posted by

David Haley USA (3,881 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #20 on Sun 03 Feb 2008 01:55 AM (UTC)

Message

I can patch using the standard tools without trouble.

As for the debate on releasing source, I'm just waiting for people to say they'd actually like to see a repository before I set it up. Since you asked for the change in the first place I guess that means I'm looking at you Onoitsu2. :-)

I'm probably going to settle on git because more people use it than bzr, although that means I'll have to learn how to set it up. If it's anything like bzr, though, that will be a very easy process...

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,173 posts) Bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #21 on Sun 03 Feb 2008 02:26 AM (UTC)

Message

Quote:

I found out why things would not patch, cause I was attempting to patch from version 4.19 up to 4.21, and it was looking for 4.20 in several locations, as well as in the mushclient.cnt there are a few alterations since 4.19 and 4.20 that I don't understand in the diff formatting.

Yes there would be a couple of spots where the version would be different, I didn't really count that as a change. My intent was, that armed with the diff file, you could create version 4.21 easily enough.

Technically a change to the help file isn't a change to the source of MUSHclient.

You could make out a fairly strong case that the diffs are actually preferable than a full release of the source, and here is why:

If you merely want to recreate the exact source I have, why not just download the executable, and not care about the source? Or, if you want to see the general way things work, a version or two back is fine.

However if you start making your own changes (like adding some new feature) then the diffs are easier to work with. Being context diffs they will add my changes/fixes and leave yours in place too.

If you get the full source each time (and not diffs) then any changes you made are lost of you switch to the new version.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

Onoitsu2 USA (248 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #22 on Sun 03 Feb 2008 03:36 AM (UTC)

Message

Nick I do realize this, I just would like to be on an even level with what has been released thus far, so that I can start from there, as you just added several commands to Mushclient recently, between v4.20 and 4.21, if something like a minor tweak to a single function, like that that was done for version 4.20 and the XML Save Double function. But when you add multiple commands and other things, then it kind of complicates things.

-Onoitsu2

Posted by

David Haley USA (3,881 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #23 on Sun 03 Feb 2008 09:25 AM (UTC)

Message

A version control repository, especially a modern distributed one like git or bzr, makes it even easier than using patches and diffs to maintain branches of a given code base. Let's assume Onoitsu2 wants to have a derivative of the core MUSHclient code. He branches the main repository, and then starts work on it. When a new version is released, and the repository is updated, all he has to do is merge with it to receive all changes that were made -- and maintain his own changes.

I agree that a full source release is not the best option. But a VCS really has the best of both worlds. It lets you have the full source now if you want it, in addition to getting an arbitrary version of the source, or getting diffs, or branching and following development, or . . . ... basically it lets you have the fullest control that can be reasonably expected over your code vs. the central code.

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org

Posted by

Pink Olifaunt (11 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #24 on Sun 17 Feb 2008 09:04 PM (UTC)

Message

I had the same problem with the patch file mentioned above, it didn't work with either the Windows or Linux versions of patch (which handle line endings differently). Maybe it's the VCS spitting out invalid patches.

http://pink.olifaunt.googlepages.com/home

Posted by

Pink Olifaunt (11 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #25 on Sun 17 Feb 2008 09:18 PM (UTC)

Message

FWIW, Bazaar also gets my vote as a version control system. Unlike CVS and the like you don't need to read a whole book to understand how it works, and there's no need for a centrally hosted repositry. The setup would consist of Nick typing "bzr init" in the mushclient directory.

http://pink.olifaunt.googlepages.com/home

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,173 posts) Bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #26 on Sun 17 Feb 2008 11:01 PM (UTC)

Message

Yes I could type that easily enough, the problems are:

That particular PC (which I use for MUSHclient source) is not turned on all the time - which is the case for all my PCs.
I have a firewall and would need to open up an incoming port to allow people to access the source
I am not sure I want to make publicly available my "home" IP address
I am not sure if the gammon.com.au web server allows source repositories to run on it - it is a web host after all.

I like the idea in principle, but need a host for the source, other than my own private PCs. Perhaps SourceForge would do it, although I have never used that before to host stuff.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

Pink Olifaunt (11 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #27 on Mon 18 Feb 2008 12:41 AM (UTC)

Message

Hi Nick,

I'm no expert but I know you can use Bazaar without really publishing the repository at all. You can make a .zip file of the source with "bzr export" and upload it for others to download and work on, and they can use "bzr send" to make a merge directive, which is a zip file containing a patch with some extra metadata, and email it to you for integration. Of course as the person who has to do the merging you're in the best position to know whether that would be worth the extra hassle.

Also, Bazaar will work read-only over ordinary http, so if you wanted you could do source releases by uploading the source tree to a directory on a web server, and people could "pull" from it directly.

http://pink.olifaunt.googlepages.com/home

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,173 posts) Bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #28 on Mon 18 Feb 2008 07:44 PM (UTC)

Message

Well, doing a "cvs export", zipping it up, and uploading that file to my web site is pretty-much what I currently do, so I don't see I have got much further down the track.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

David Haley USA (3,881 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #29 on Tue 19 Feb 2008 06:18 AM (UTC)

Message

Again, I would be happy to host a repository, whatever flavor ends up being chosen. Nick, I believe that you already have access to a the-haleys.com account anyhow. :)

As for what is gained by having the repository available online: it lets people see the history, not just the current state. Indeed having the current state is what already exists; having history is what is missing.

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org

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